
The Siren reads Virginia Heffernan's "The Medium" column on Sundays in the New York Times Magazine, and she usually enjoys it. This past Sunday, Ms Heffernan took up the topic of Website comment sections, using as an example the comments on Anne Applebaum's column in the Washington Post. The Siren does not read the Washington Post columnists, as their politics frequently give her a twitch in her right eyelid, but it seems that the people who post on the WaPo site lack respect for Ms Applebaum's credentials, do not engage with Ms Applebaum's writing, are rude and occasionally bigoted and probably post just to see themselves "published."
And the Siren absolutely could not relate.
Indeed, the Siren looked at her own comments section, and felt the same proprietary thrill that a homeowner gets from realizing she has the prettiest rose trellis on the block. Part of that is a question of scale, of course. Still, the Siren does love her comments oasis here. The post on The Private Affairs of Bel-Ami turned into a small discussion of Directors Behaving Badly, and whether indeed most of them ever behave any other way, and the tribute to Jack Cardiff eventually segued into a discussion of the very notion of "auteur." If Ms Heffernan gets tired of the mosh pit of WaPo comments, she is more than welcome to stop by and pull up a virtual armchair.
So the Siren says, once more, many thanks to her wonderful commenters, and she is contributing to the two discussions by posting an anecdote that relates to both prior topics merely by being about Fritz Lang. It's from Henry Fonda's long interview in Hollywood Speaks, the highlight of a very good book. He was an actor who was interested in the process of moviemaking and alert to the different methods and goals of the directors he worked with. Fonda was very aware, for example, of what lay behind Wyler's notorious retakes. That does not mean, however, that Fonda could suffer Fritz gladly--not many could. But the Siren always thinks, reading this particular passage, that Fonda did understand what was making Lang tick. He just didn't want to deal with it.
So here is Fonda, discussing Lang in general and The Return of Frank James in particular. Mike Steen asks Fonda if he was happy making that movie.
No. Because again, it was Lang. Oh shit, he came to me with tears in his eyes and said he'd learned his lesson and so forth. Why Zanuck ever thought he would be the right kind of director for a Western I don't know, 'cause he wasn't at all. He was the same man he'd been on the other one I did with him, You Only Live Once, in the sense he was preoccupied with his camera. He painted with his camera...
...In The Return of Frank James I had a scene where I come into a barn hunting down John Carradine, who has killed Jesse. I had to come in to a point, look around, hear something and exit. That's all there was to the scene. We were about five hours doing it because Lang decides he wants cobwebs from the overhead beam down to the post that stood where I had to stop for a moment. So they send to the special effects department, and a guy comes down and blows cobwebs around. It's easy to do. But then Lang would come in and break holes in them to make them look like old cobwebs. Pretty soon he was breaking so many holes that the entire thing collapsed, and the effects guy would end up having to do it over. I sat there watching. By this time I knew Lang so well I would make bets with guys that we would be three hours, fucking with the cobwebs in a scene where I come in and stand for two seconds, then walk out!
Fonda goes on to talk about filming near Lone Pine and encountering a beautiful fallen tree. John Ford, said Fonda, would have "said 'Oh shit!' and put a tripod down and shot it. But not Lang." Lang made the crew move the enormous log and then ordered a camera platform built to change the angle. Fonda got off easily, however, considering he said Lang also killed three horses on the location by forcing them to run too hard at high altitude.
"So it was not a good experience," said Fonda, "but it was not a bad picture. Somebody saw it on television the other night and told me they enjoyed it. Anyway, I didn't enjoy working with Fritz Lang."
235 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 235 of 235Your Beatty story sounds pretty solid, Gerard. But Diane Keaton is a very independent-minded woman who has led a very singular life. Her affair with Woody Allen was over by the time they did Annie Hall. And she would have crossed paths with Warren Beatty had she never met Woody. She's quite friendly with all her ex-beaus EXCEPT Al Pacino. That was quite tumultuous, leaving a lot of bitterness and recrimination in its wake.
Capucine may have gotten into the movies by being Charlie Feldman's girlfriend, but she was quite wonderful nonetheless. She would have been perfect for Lubitsch. I adore her in Pussycat, The Honey Pot and North to Alaska.
And by the way her real name was Germaine LeFevre -- which is what she's called in a key scene in Pussycat
The difference though between then and now is that great and good stuff was being produced at the center AND at the fringes. The spirit of monopoly now occupies the center. I think the fringes need a vital, living center and not just as an adversarial foil.
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side."
Hunter Thompson
Since music isn't produced and sold as it used to be, it's hard to see how anything is going to change. The two factions really talk past each other and often (outside of making money) have different goals.
I'm really glad someone brought up movie scoring for one reason. An acquaintance of mine has a very close friend who has a project that might go into production (don't ask me about details, I haven't a clue. I haven't talked to his screenwriter/producer friend in 20 years). He wants to talk his friend into letting him score the film. I looked at him with some bemusement, the likelihood being so remote. Although he is a songwriter and has a studio setup, he hasn't a clue as to how to score a film (his taste in film is execrable, too). I really want to take a silent film to him, throw it in his lap and tell him, "write a score for this, it'll be good practice". I'm thinking of taking The General since I've heard it with excellent, passable, and bad scores, but if anyone has a better idea I'm open to suggestions.
I hope HST was being literal, because he was right.
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mnd, Dr. Caligari is a possibility (I've heard two scores, both good). If you really want to show him the error of his ways try Pandora's Box.
I've seen/heard some wonderful things done with new scores for silent movies. There are a few events in SF every year that encourage same. Some aren't uch (an arty rock band doing its usual thing while the Lost World dinosaurs jump around over their heads is just lazy) but some, like Bill Frisell developing an entirely new score Sherlock Jr., are miraculous.
I'm inspired by the chatter here to increase my appreciation of old Hollywood scores. X & Y & others: are there score/composers you'd recommend listening to even without the visual accompaniment? Korngold?
David: Yes, I suspect the implication that Diane Keaton was just being "played" by Beatty is unfair. But I can see WB taking some satisfaction in knowing that his very public romancing of her was giving Woody a bit of nausea, which might have been quite an incentive to pursue her.
Don't forget Woody's great line that he wants to be reincarnated "as Warren Beatty's fingertips."
Beatty put Keaton in a masterpiece called Reds.
Woody immortalized her in Annie Hall, Manhattan and Manhattan Murder Mystery. The last was especially pleasurable in that they played a long-married couple. No question aueicnes "bought" them as this, and their easy familiarity with one another was both a plot plus and a production time-saver.
I did love the interaction of Woody and Diane in Murder Mystery. I had many small quibbles about the movie, and thought Keaton overdid her frantic/manic routine (which I think she trots out as her comic fallback when the material is thin), but I completely believed the years-long ease between them.
It really worked beautifully because it's the story of a long-married couple who while a solid pairing are beginning to find their lievs a tad stale. Suddenly the prospect that their next-door neighbor has murdered his wife enters the picure and everything brightens up for them. They have a real adventure.
One of the best things in the film is when they spot the woman they think is their neighbor's wife riding a bus. Very well-handled narratively and in terms of mise en scene.
Also Woody uses Anjelica Huston as a marvelous contrast to Diane.
Gerard,
Korngold, Herrmann, and Rozsa stand up best to visual-free listening. It's no coincidence that all three have large catalogs of symphonic and chamber music (I believe the symphonies of Korngold and Herrmann are masterpieces, likewise K and Rozsa's violin concertos, though I can't vouch for the opinion of Joan "some symphonies, most concertos" Crawford.) Waxman, though he was a fine musician wrote some great scores (Rebecca, above all and Sunset Blvd.) I find has a less distinctive musical profile away from the screen. Steiner's is movie (as against "film") music and glorious fun, he was such a good tunesmith, same goes for Alfred Newman and Victor Young. Dmitri Tiomkin is flat out dreadful, without taste and invention, not even fun in an Ed Wood/Wm. McGonagall way.
I would be more than happy to burn you (or anyone else who's interested) a couple of Korngold, Herrmann, Rozsa compilation disks.
X: I would love to hear any discs you wish to burn! Just don't get yourself in legal trouble.
A warning: as another habitué of the Siren Café knows, I'm a little slow getting to things and responding to them lately. Just that I have a ton of work to do and although I can pass off blog-commenting as "at least I'm at my computer, and I zip back to my work the instant I post," I've had a hard time allowing myself to watch and listen to things. But this situation will pass with my next big deadline in about two weeks.
George Alec Effinger once wrote a funny science fiction story called "The Aliens Who Knew, I Mean, Everything," about some extraterrestrial visitors who have established objective measures for every aesthetic, philosophy, and political dispute imaginable. They asserted that it had been scientifically proven that the greatest piece of music ever created on earth was Miklos Rosza's score for Ben Hur.
In Manhattan Murder Mystery I also love Woody's shtick with the unspooling cassette tape. I was glad to see he still keeps slapstick in his arsenal.
Pandora's Box. Hmmm. He does need to be shown that he isn't up to the task, but I thought something simpler like Metropolis (if somehow he never saw the Moroder version) might be enough to warn him off this peculiar delusion. While he's a decent enough songwriter and a good musician, I'm certain he doesn't understand what a score entails. I also got such a sketchy rendering of the plot of this proposed film, that I couldn't quite tell anything for sure except that it wasn't a comedy.
There is some caustic fun in the idea that he could create a version of Pandora's Box with something akin to a Club Foot score. He's fully capable of doing that even though he's done some marginally good synthesized orchestrations.
Taste’s a funny thing, ain’t it? I agree generally with X re the listed composers, except for Tiomkin, some of whose work I find, if not subtle or intelligent, certainly compelling.
The worst I would accept about his music is that it is rather obvious; the triumph of sturm und drang over sensitivity; but I think he could do size and bombast (when called for) better than most, and portent as well as anyone (always excepting Herrmann).
Tiomkin in life was impressive (yep, another Q&A remembrance from my wasted youth), he was as loud and brassy as one might expect; I don’t think I ever saw a human who brimmed more self-confidence. He insisted – with some justification – that he was beloved by studio musicians for his tendency to write wall-to-wall scores, and the employment it brought them.
I remember very little about his Q&A (decades ago) except his surprising modesty when someone asked about his influences. He gave the not unusual response that ‘every composer stands on the shoulders of the giants’ – in his case, it was Rimsky-Korsakov; “Without Rimsky-Korsakov or Prokovieff there would be no Waxman or Rosza or Steiner or Korngold or… (with a smile) Tiomkin.”
P.S. While I was writing this, GJ posted the Aliens/Ben Hur choice; spooky, I was/am listening to it as I type. For the longest time, I found Miklos Rosza a little syrupy for my tastes, then I bought the Ben Hur score and learned the error of my ways. Group me with the aliens.
You should also seek out Roza's amazing score for Alain Resnais' Providence
Tiomkin is of course immortalized in the anecdote about Selznick demanding "orgasmic" music for one of Jennifer Jones's big scenes in Duel in the Sun. Exasperated by Tiomkin's repeated failure to deliver what he thought of us as "orgasmic," Selznick finally yelled, "God damn it, Dmitri, I'm talking about fucking! That's not the way I fuck!"
To which Tiomkin said, "David, I don't know how you fuck. But this is the way I fuck!"
I'm not positive, but I think Selznick backed off at the point, and what we hear in the movie springs more from Tiomkin's experience...
Very interesting stuff, Yojimboen. A few comments.
We all hear music differenly, sometimes to the point of exasperation ("How can you enjoy THAT?"--place the stress on any of the 5 words you please.) I find Tiomkin's music lumpish, clotted, and inert; when it rises to memorability (say, The High and the Mighty, Gunfight at OK Corral) I want immediately to forget. As for portent he's surpassed not only by Herrmann, but by Rozsa as well, the master of the noir score (Waxman was no slouch here either). I've never heard anything as ridiculous as Tiomkin's klutzy insertion of the allegretto mvmnt of the Beethoven 7th symphony into the portentous moments of The Long Night just as his shrieking "arrangements" of Debussy disfigure Portrait of Jenny (Herrmann was to have scored Jenny; all that remains is the eerie/beautiful song she sings. What a score this would have been).
His comments on Rimsky-Korsakoff are way off. The common deninator, fons et origo of film music is Wagner, Tristan & Isolde to be specific. Korngold's style comes from Wagner, via Richard Strauss, early Schoenberg with a dash of Puccini, and a soupcon of Debussy. Herrmann's main influences, besides Wagner are Debussy, Elgar, Vaughan Williams, and Holst (Herrmann's music is very English, he was friends with RVW, Beecham, Malcolm Arnold, John Barbirolli, and Gerald Finzi), Rozsa is saturated in the melos of Hungarian folksong, Bartok, and Kodaly with a strong admixture of Debussy, Ravel, and Honegger. Of course many composers turned to Rimsky when something exotic was called for just as they had most likely read his treatise on orchestration. Even so, the basic Hollywood sound was Central European.
Concerning Ben Hur: Nice stuff but Rozsa best scores are:
1. Lust for Life
2. Madame Bovary
3. Double Indemnity
4. The Lost Weekend
5. Spellbound
6. The Thief of Baghdad
Rozsa was a gentlemanly and collegial sort, and he absolutely hated Tiomkin (see his memoirs, A Double Life).
I just got Duel in the Sun down off the shelf and put it on the Victrola - it's pretty lame stuff. I can see Selznick's point. But then again, the old adage about producers - still used to this day - was originally coined for David O'Selznick: "He has no idea what he wants but he won't stop until he gets it."
Y, this proves my point in a back-handed way. Rimsky-Korsakoff wrote some of the best "fucking" music ever in the third movement of Scheherazade from which Tiomkin clearly learned nothing. Tristan, of course, provided the template for "orgasmic" music and the most extreme (I was going to write "potent") example still remains Aleksandr Scriabin's Poeme de l'Extase (1909) which would have cracked Selznick's glasses.
Okay, let's amend my last post to read, "...it's pretty limp stuff."
Much as I adore Bernie H (though for me nothing tops Mrs. Muir) his most admired piece, "Scene d'Amour" from Vertigo, heart-breakingly beautiful though it be, is, sad to report, less than pristine; being well-founded in Tristan. In that regard, yes, BH is definitely Wagnerian progeny.
Re Dmitri - just so I'm clear - I shouldn't get that extra ticket for TiomkinPalooza! at the American Cinematheque next month? Let me know if you change your mind? Tickets are selling out fast ;D
Roza's score for Moonfleet and Desert Fury are excellent too.
Yes, Moonfleet is a beaut; I don't think Rosza ever wrote a less-than-good score, but Lust for Life is transcendent. Sadly, its never had an adequate recording.
The Tristan echoes in Scene d'Amour are deliberate. Herrmann wanted to draw a thematic parallel to the death as the consumation of love theme in Tristan. As Mrs. Muir shows, Herrmann could do the wave upon wave of harmonically unresolved/unconsumated longing as well as anyone, not quotation needed. Quite different from Steiner's blatant cribbing from the Sibelius Symphony 2 at the climax of Passage to Marseilles.
Just to take one more smack at Mitya Tiomkin, there's that inexplicable fugue he wrote for the chase in Strangers on a Train Farley Granger eluding the police after winning the tennis match. It suggests an image of J.S. Bach (or his least talented son) trying to run with his shoelaces tied together.
What does ";D" mean? I keep seeing it here...
M X - "the most extreme (I was going to write "potent") example still remains Aleksandr Scriabin's Poeme de l'Extase (1909) which would have cracked Selznick's glasses."....especially if Svetlana Smolina was playing it.
Vanwall, I saw (ok, heard) Svetlana Smolina in an all-Rachmaninoff recital about seven years ago. Words cannot describe...
Gene Tierney lookalike Valentina Igoshina is also a Rachmaninoff specialist, and then there is Helene Grimaud. A pity Sergei Vasilievich never wrote a concerto for three pianos.
While I revere Scriabin (some music is good, some bad. Scriabin's music is EVIL, and I love every note of it) Rachmaninoff is one with Chekhov and Pasternak of my trinity of Russian gods.
My favorite commentary on "American Idol"--of which I have never watched a single minute, although I have been inundated with it symbiotically--is a T-shirt produced several years ago by Glarkware. In a perfect approximation of the AI logo, it proclaimed "Loud is the New Good."
Ooo! I like that, Karen! And by no means applies only to that show.
Karen, that t-shirt reminds me of the immortal Lina Lamont: "I liked it. It was good and LOUD."
I also confess to liking Tiomkin. I never get the complaints about the big, flossy scores to old movies--I like 'em, they're good and LOUD.
Seriously, part of the world of an old movie is definitely aural. I loved Chuck Tryon, when some of us were doing "10 Things I love about old movies" -- the first thing he mentioned was sonic hiss. YES.
M X - There's an excellent Scriabin/Smolina on YouTube, and some of her Rach work, as well. Rubenstein's '56 with Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony practically lives on the CD player in my car.
For scoring in the Rachmaninoff mode, Addinsell's "Warsaw Concerto", with Douglas's orchestration, is one of the few movie scores one hears on "classical" music stations. I once bought a reasonably forgettable collection of classical "hits" just because Cristina Ortiz, a Brazilian pianist, did an absolutely perfect version of the "Warsaw Concerto" on it. She does very good Scriabin, as well.
Ah, Vanwall, this is touching the mystic chords of record memory. I grew up on Rubinstein/Reiner in the Rachmaninoff 2nd Cto. and bought many a Christina Ortiz record just to get her picture on the sleeve (my favorite had her playing works for piano and orchestra by Villa-Lobos [wonderful music, fortunately] and she looked entrancing on the cover). Frankly, I've never thought much of the Warsaw Cto.; one chord of real Rachmaninoff (a very, very hard composer to imitate) would blow the whole thing away. It's really written in a generic style, a bit closer to the Grieg concerto+Liszt and a lot of water. Is "Douglas" Roy Douglas? Amanuenis to Vaughan Williams and a fine composer in his own right? By the way, I love Addinsell's Mr. Chipps music. To get back briefly to the Archers, I've never been able to find much information on Brian Easdale. His music for Black Narcissus is extraordinary, especially in its avoidance of "eastern" cliches. (Take that, Dmitri Tiomkin!)
I have to agree with XT about Dmitri Tiomkin. He generally was too generic, and little connected to the plot, even in his epics where everything sounded the same. Some set-pieces were effective, however, such as the river crossing in Red River, although any numbers of others could have matched it.
The Thing's score was effective in its eeriness, too.
Off-topic, but what the hell.
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